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Author Topic: Lt James, Prior Enlistment and other fan theories of SGU  (Read 428 times)

Bowsy 112

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Lt James, Prior Enlistment and other fan theories of SGU
« on: March 05, 2018, 01:13:27 PM »

Now this is something that came up with ideas for my fan-fiction universe.

As we all know SGU was a little bit, dodgy on the military side of things. Such as the rank gap between Young and Scott, Greer possibly being a little young for his supposed rank and what not.
(Not complaining, these are just things that have come up in a few places, Less issues with the story and more production issues.)

However my primary focuse is the fact that it is commonly believed that 2nd Lt Vanessa James has some prior experience before becoming a 2nd Lt as an enlisted Airman. Mostly this is based off of the fact she has more experience than Lt Scott but is a lower rank.
With Scott stating he went to the USAF academy, did SGC training and Icarus was his first assignment, though James makes reference to a tour of duty in Iraq and involvement in Special Forces.

Anyway, my train of thought was. Using the StarGate Wikipedia. That she was born around 1982 / 1983 / 1984 (The Wiki gives one year, but no exact date or age, so I am giving myself some wiggle room.) And assuming that a USAF 2nd Lt is the same as other 2nd Lt's where you are typically promoted after a year or two, I am assuming that she was given the commission before going to Icarus base and that was her first posting as an officer. So for arguments sake the Wiki gives Icarus's as 2007, lets assume this is when she did her training as an officer and was posted there as soon as she was commissioned. Assuming her birthday is correct on the wiki that means she is 24 when she becomes an officer. Another assumption is that she was 18 if she enlisted. Meaning she could have been in the USAF as an enlisted member for 6 years, making her anywhere from Airman First Class to Staff Sergeant. (I have to admit Staff Sergeant is a little Dodgy in my mind at 6 years. But its possible to make Sergeant (The same Pay Grade) in the USMC in the same amount of time.(Also to argue the fact it could be possible, at least in the Stargate fandom is that Greer supposedly made Master Sergeant. (Three pay grades higher than USAF Staff Sergeant) in 7 years.)) To be safe I would put her in the middle of this as a Senior Airman before she becomes an officer.

But really I am curious as to what other people think of this? Am I miles off? Do people have different ideas? What rank do you think she would have been?

Or do you want to talk about someother fan theory you have seen or you have about SGU?
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Troy

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Re: Lt James, Prior Enlistment and other fan theories of SGU
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2018, 11:35:26 AM »

I just saw this, but it makes sense. She likely was in Security Forces as an enlisted airman. If she came in a a slick sleeve, in 6 years she might have reached Staff Sgt. If she made Senior Airman below the zone, it would speed up her rank progression.


Greer did seem too young to have reached that rank in the Marines or any branch.
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Bowsy 112

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Re: Lt James, Prior Enlistment and other fan theories of SGU
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2018, 02:41:29 PM »

Unfortunatly its stuff like this that I feel Universe missed out on. Unlike SG-1 and Atlantis. it was an amazing setting for a lot of character driven stories, (Not that the other two wernt, but Universe's plots revolved a lot more around the people.) Episodes of her and Scott arguing, Rank over Experience.

As for Greer's age, I feel that was a decision made mostly by the drive to make SGU the young sexy show for the Star Gate Franchise. Because it was, its why most the main cast were in their mid to late 20's.
As for making an explanation, well its a little hard especially seeing as we dont have the Characters Age, only the Actors and the Actor was 27 at the time, which, in my opinion. is far you young for a USMC Master Sergeant. Though its very possible that Greer could have been low thirties, which though pushing it, could make him a newly promoted Master Sergeant. Which maybe could go to explaining the Telford incident.

it is my understanding that in the USMC, the general rule, (Though like all militarys not always followed.) that Sgt's lead fire teams, SSgt's lead squads, Gunnery Sergeants lead platoons (With Officers.) and Master Sergeants are either Company level SNCO's or Battalion Level NCO's. So maybe a newly promoted GSgt to MSgt who dosnt have experience with keeping their cool around officers would punch the base commander.
(I know Greer is far from restrained but I still think a MSgt wouldn't punch a base commander as his first resort.)

But again thats all based on assuming that the character is older than the actor. Not that its impossible, just no evidence for it.
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Re: Lt James, Prior Enlistment and other fan theories of SGU
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2018, 02:05:48 PM »

It's possible he made rank fast, although it's not common.  At least in the reserves I know some E-7's who reached that rank fairly fast. Don't know too many E-8's.

If he enlisted at 18 and promoted each time he was eligible I could see him reaching MSgt by early 30's. It could also be that the SGC offered a faster promotion track.


There's also the issue of Riley's rank. He's referred to as Sgt but his rank insignia is only a Senior Airman. As the Wiki states, he could be up for promotion at the time they left for Destiny but it wasn't made official yet.


For the most part Stargate seems to be accurate with ranks, but sometimes does mess them up.
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Bowsy 112

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Re: Lt James, Prior Enlistment and other fan theories of SGU
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2018, 07:18:23 AM »

Well I believe they dropped their Air Force Adviser for SGU, as they felt they didnt need them, which I can understand to a degree, especially as some of them have worked with an USAF Adviser for like 10 years, and why pay a guy who realistically may not even have to do anything for every 2 out of 3 episodes.

I think it would have been a little better had they had one though, maybe just even for pre-production. Because again the big issue is, we dont know how old Greer is, but his actor looks to be too young But even a modification to his rank just down one grade which I dont think would have really mattered to much to the show, I mean they hardly ever refereed to Greer as a Master Sergeant, even though they likely should have. (Cause you know, USMC Do their own thing.)

But then again I am not sure how much say they would have had seeing as SGU was meant to be the young sexy spin off, possibly SGU may have been a little before its time? Seeing as how many Sci Fi shows are out there now that that are, in the same vain as SGU with all the drama and angst. Though I wasnt a fan of SGU's drama I did enjoy the show, I just wish that things said with out thought. IE some of James references to past military experience, were either taken in to account, or if they were, maybe shown a little more. Like I would have loved to have seen Young have to stop using his UMP because of its ammo, maybe saving it for his pistol. (Though youngs pistol always disappointed me a little bit.)
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Cipherhornet18

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Re: Lt James, Prior Enlistment and other fan theories of SGU
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2018, 11:40:08 AM »

I think in the end, SGU had the pieces of a good show, but fell flat on its face based on the fact that it was run by morons (I mean, seriously, how the hell do you screw up so badly that Jack O'Neill becomes CARDBOARD?!) and suffers from what I call the "Voyager Problem".

The "Voyager Problem" stems from the Star Trek spinoff, "Star Trek: Voyager", and more or less is summed up that if you remove a show too far from where it's at, it starts becoming very difficult to care about it if the tangential tie is all that keeps it alive. SGU is so far removed from anything resembling Stargate, it might as well not even be a Stargate franchise, and the same can be said for Voyager, take out the Star Trek, and it was just another sci-fi lost in space show.

Frankly, I think Lieutenant James was the only character I thought was worth a damn. I thought literally everyone else on that ship wasn't worth the oxygen they were breathing, either because of the stereotype they existed as (like Eli being the "smart nerdy hacker" or whatsername being the "Senator's altruistic daughter") or because the characters were just so nails on chalkboard bad (like Col. Young being a scumbag, Rush being a scumbag, Scott was kind of a douchebag). They likely just slapped together some half-baked backstory to make her semi-relevant, since she was more or less a secondary character. But if I had to pick anyone to save for the show I would've liked to see, it'd have been her.

What show is that? The one hinted at the begining of the series; Sam Carter in command of a ship. Could've been a much better series to have a ship-oriented run be based on the USS George Hammond bopping around than the angsty teenage drama snorefest we got out of SGU. I'm glad SGU died the death it got, and I hope if Stargate ever comes back, it stays dead or gets retconned harder than the Mandalorians did in Star Wars: The Clone Wars.
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Bowsy 112

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Re: Lt James, Prior Enlistment and other fan theories of SGU
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2018, 01:15:47 PM »

I certainly feel that they got Jack's character very, very wrong at the start. But I feel like all its other problems it stems from them trying to make it a different show.

I do feel as a show it could have been a lot better had they taken a secondary character from Atlantis or SG-1 and thrown them in as a pain character like Atlantis did with McKay. As you said it was to far removed, Rush and Young would have worked if they wernt both scumbags. I think all the characters worked well but not together.

I am in the same boat as Cipher, If I could have saved somebody from the show it would have been James as she was one of the more interesting characters. Its sort of where this whole thread started, I wanted to include her some how in my fanfiction but I cant retroactively insert SG-12 on the Destiny so I had to back peddle, set it in the past with her on some SG-Team as a Senior Airman before going through Officer Training and becoming an officer posted to Icarus.

Though I dont think setting a show on a ship like the Hammond Would have worked. I feel that becomes a little to Star Trek like. And I also dont feel that SGU Should be reconnected, I do hope that if they bring back another series that they will have learnt from the mistakes. (Though I will cry in the corner about Mandalorians and clone retcon in clone wars.)
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