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Author Topic: Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?  (Read 335 times)

Bluebell722

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Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?
« on: July 10, 2018, 11:04:49 PM »

Now I'm not asking this just because I'm playing him, but did anyone really buy that he wanted to go back to high school?

If we assume the info in Fragile Balance was true, Jack was born in 1952. Assuming the TV show was pretty much contiguous with real life, season 7 was in 2004, which would have made Jack about 52, yes?

What 52-year-old would really want to go back to high school, adolescent body aside? (Of course there's the question if the clone's body was only adolescent, did he only have a brain developed to that stage of adolescence? His impulse control and executive functioning and decision-making would be different.) Or is it just my inner social worker that's just really creeped out by the notion of a 52-year-old man, adolescent body aside, leering at teenage girls?

I feel like clone Jack could have had a more interesting future. Maybe they'd have kept him around as a backup for Jack in the event something happened to Jack. Once the SGC figured out about the ATA gene, well, instead of fumbling around with Carson and getting lucky with John Sheppard, they already knew of someone who could also work the Ancient Chair in Antarctica.

Sending Clone Jack to Atlantis, with all his skills and training and leadership experience to help Colonel Sumner would have been a great idea.

I like John Sheppard, don't get me wrong, but I felt like the end of Fragile Balance was disingenuous in some ways.

What do the rest of you think?
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Mim

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Re: Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2018, 11:55:05 PM »

 Some really interesting points here Blue, some that I never really considered except that one factor you brought up concerning a 52 year old in High School...with the girls. I mean like he has that male advantage of years in his head, it tends to lead into all kinds of scenarios doesn't it?

 I think the logic is true, yes he might well have been better suited for those roles. But then you still are faced with the 'kid' body he stands in. Sumner wouldn't have had him anywhere near him let alone hold a gun. In this area with his teenage physiology there comes certain limits as to what people will accept even if it is Sci-fi. :D And I think he's so cute as well.  <3
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Cipherhornet18

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Re: Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2018, 12:03:43 AM »

I did.

There's an old phrase, "I wish I knew then what I know now", and Jack had that right there. When we're teenagers, school seems like a waste of time and with hormones raging, all the drama going on, we end up looking back through rose tinted glasses feeling like we should've paid attention in school, listened to our teachers and parents, and whatever else.

Like I was emotionally unbalanced all throughout high school. I was an outcast, I had several times I flew into suicidal depression, and I spent all my time from 10th to 12th grade chasing a girl who had 0 interest in me, despite everyone telling me to give it up. I graduated unprepared for the outside world, I joined the Air Force, washed out after 3 weeks because I admitted to suicidal thoughts, and spent the next 8 years in "retail hell". Meanwhile, I had somehow created a delusion that skating by on Ds and Cs would get me into flying fighter jets.

So if I had the chance to do it all over again, I would.

And in Jack's position, what else was he going to do? No one was going to take him seriously until he physically matured, it's not like he could stick around at the SGC. At 16, he has no legal rights as an adult in the United States. You have to be 17 with parental approval to enlist in the armed forces at the minimum. He had no real other options left to him but to ride it out, and try to enjoy it while being wiser beyond his years.
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Mim

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Re: Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2018, 12:24:16 AM »

 Oh Wow! My parents are over atm and I was just showing this to Dad. My god! He said almost exactly as you did practically word for word. UnBelievable! To add to this Dad said that given the opportunity he would have done so many things differently in his life had he the chance; the only thing he wouldn't have changed was meeting Mum. But his entire Navy career he said would have been changed; he worked his way up through the ranks, though he said it was hard and when he got some braid, those blokes who came through the academy always treated him differently. Not in a good way either.
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Teddy

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Re: Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2018, 12:41:22 PM »

Just got to say, the lad  that played the young Jack, was excellent, got him spot on.


I was wondering if maybe, after a certain amount of time at high school, that they, the military, would have offered him a job?
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Troy

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Re: Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2018, 01:57:40 PM »

I read an E-book where Clone Jack did work for the SGC on occassion.
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Bluebell722

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Re: Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2018, 03:18:04 PM »

The thing is, high school for Clone Jack wouldn't have been anything like high school was for him originally. High school wasn't a bright and shining point in my life but I'd never go back to high school today. I'm not even close to Jack's age and being around that many teenagers for a sustained period of time would be hard.

What would he talk about with them? He knows nothing of their music or cars. He fell asleep watching CNN. He cared about politics. He had a wife and a child and lost a child and went to war. How could he possibly relate to them? Add to the fact that he'd be chafing at his lack of independence. Even if he couldn't enlist till he was 17, they estimated he was physically fifteen, it would have been so easy for him to be listed on paperwork as 16, at which point he could be legally emancipated and then choose a life for himself outside of high school (16 being the age at which kids in America can petition for board release and basically drop out instead of finishing high school).

I think if Sumner were read into the fact of Clone Jack - and it seems like Jack and Sumner had an all right relationship - he'd be willing to work with him. The gap in the chain of command for the initial Atlantis expedition was insane - O6, O4, then...O2? And it seemed like John was sort of...out of the chain of command, so then it was reall O6-O2. Having Clone Jack along to balance out the command structure would have been wise.

I just sort of look at Clone Jack and think of little Claudia from Interview with a Vampire, an adult stuck in a child's body who kind of went insane. Granted, he had hope of growing up and eventually making it to a point where he'd be an adult again and could be taken seriously, which she never had, but going back to high school in a whole new generation would be so hard.

...Also I just can't let go of the general ookiness of a 52-year-old man flirting with 15-year-old girls, whatever his face was.

Michael Welch did do a fantastic job as Clone Jack, it is true.
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Bowsy 112

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Re: Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2018, 03:55:09 PM »

I mean it is a little odd, It was likely only chosen because it worked well for the end of an episode.

Though its possible, he wants to try it again, maybe he didn't get great grades, I don't know what the USAF Academy require for entry, and no offence to Jack, he didn't really seem like he would have been the most academic kid. So maybe he was trying to start again to get different grades in different subjects. But also he would have to adjust to being 15, and the best way to do it is to go to school.

I mean I dont know, again I think its slightly over thinking a production decision. (Not that I am saying we shouldn't do it, I am just thinking that maybe, it was never something intended to be thought about?)
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Cipherhornet18

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Re: Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2018, 03:56:13 PM »

Heres my response to Jack being in the military early or going to ATL:

Who would take him seriously? Sumnter was by the books, McKay would talk down to him, and would Teyla or Ronon really accept a boy as Earths greatest warrior? Really?
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Bowsy 112

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Re: Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2018, 04:01:48 PM »

On the subject of him being in the Military, I do feel that he wouldn't join the Military, not I am judging how he is played here, but I feel he would have done things differently, like maybe be a cop or something. But I dont think he would join the Military.
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Mim

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Re: Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2018, 05:37:07 PM »

 I'm trying to visualize this in a medical sense. So we know that cloning is indeed possible as we're already doing it. But what do we really know about the clones themselves? For example, while in this case the Asgard created a teen version of Jack do we really know what his mental state may have been? Maturity is governed by many things, hormones being one of the primary drivers. So is it possible clone Jack was fully kitted out with 15 year old hormones?
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MissCobra1018

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Re: Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2018, 08:13:25 AM »

I'm trying to visualize this in a medical sense. So we know that cloning is indeed possible as we're already doing it. But what do we really know about the clones themselves? For example, while in this case the Asgard created a teen version of Jack do we really know what his mental state may have been? Maturity is governed by many things, hormones being one of the primary drivers. So is it possible clone Jack was fully kitted out with 15 year old hormones?

I was thinking something very similar. While he had Jack's memories and experience, his body was right back where he was at 15/16. Hormones are very powerful and they affect emotions as well as thought processes. Mini-me Jack said himself, "from here on out, we're different people", or something like that. Even their short time as separate individuals has given them different perspectives and personalities. Clone Jack had already experienced life with less responsibility and respect, the threat of his clone body dying, etc, it had made him a different person. Old/Original Jack said HE didn't want to go back to high school.

The issue of him ogling young ladies as an older gent in the head, that I can't resolve. There are definitely issues with the direction they chose for his storyline. They probably should have at least sent him to college early, there are *plenty* of 15/16 yr olds in college, and his maturity and intelligence would have matched college aged people much better.

I too think that eventually, if they had ever done anything with this character again, he would've been a resource for SGC, for sure. Maybe it would take a couple years for him to look a little older, but maybe not. The airmen in the class about the F302 learned to respect him pretty quick. But I agree with Bowsy, he might not have gone military full-time this time around. Maybe he'd become a fisherman  :W
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Cipherhornet18

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Re: Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2018, 11:18:13 AM »

I think the punchline at the end with the girls was just a tongue-in-cheek moment, since I think the actual age difference would likely bother him a great deal. Obviously, yes, there would be that adjustment for him to try to get a little more into sync with what kids are more into, but he's a gamer to a degree given by the fact Sam's first idea was to go hook up a Playstation, and let's not forget what Jack's favorite TV series is. He's not completely out of touch, but I don't doubt he'd have maybe a few friends made by the time he graduates.

Now if the SGC were so inclined, I could see them perhaps having him drop by time to time in a civilian advisory role. But even then, the Goa'uld kind of stopped being the main bad guy after Anubis, so that'd be sketchy at best. But he wouldn't just get to walk right back into the military and assume a role of any sort of leadership. Remember; the SGC is not the Air Force, they'd be extremely hard pressed to just hand an 18 year old kid without any background a set of 2nd Lieutenant bars, much less anything higher.

And really, I think Bowsy and Cobra have a point too; Jack already gave one life to the military. It's speculation that he even goes back, he could decide to go buy a boat and end up like Jack did in Mobieus. Again, it's all based on the phrase "If I knew then what I know now", Jack is going to realize the freedom he has but with the knowledge of his past life. He may wrestle with it from time to time, and yeah, it's going to be hard to explain at 15-16 that he's living with the memory of Charlie, but yeah, the point is, I buy him going back to high school, and I'd buy it if he turned out to have never even returned to military service after graduation. Hell, for all the intelligence he downplays, maybe he ends up in more surprising places than one would think.
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Mim

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Re: Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2018, 10:28:39 PM »

Quote
The issue of him ogling young ladies as an older gent in the head, that I can't resolve. There are definitely issues with the direction they chose for his storyline. They probably should have at least sent him to college early, there are *plenty* of 15/16 yr olds in college, and his maturity and intelligence would have matched college aged people much better.

 My Niece has just recently done two things *she turned 17 last May). One, she finished her second year of Medical College and two she got married and no not because she had to. She had the benefit of hindsight which we all do but not in the sense of a clone; but it is the same concept. Arwen saw first hand what her parents went through in life, hell even what I went through since the two of us are so close and she chose to make choices that were hers and what might more or less guarantee her the life she wanted. I think given what is in Jack clones head, he would have done the same thing. Fishing, yeah definitely. :D
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Far Dareis Mai
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Mim

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Re: Clone!Jack O'Neill - back to high school? Really?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2018, 10:31:23 PM »

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Far Dareis Mai
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